Other implications of Granderson trade
Tuesday, December 8, 2009 at 9:25 pm by SJK
1. Either Melky or Gardner is going to be shipped out, because Granderson's value comes from him playing CF and neither Melky or Gardner have the bats for a corner OF position.
2. By trading A-Jax, it would seem that a trade for Halladay is more unlikely, as Jackson was one of the Yankees best trade chips.
Tags: gardner, granderson, halladay, melky
I think that you can get hung up in whether a player has a bat for a position. It is certainly a waste to have a decent (Melky) or very good (Brett) fielding CF left but the Yanks would have a great OF. You’d likely go with Brett if you keep him.
Melky may go beause he is about to get a raise.
Money being equal, I’d rather have Melky than Gardner because Melky doesn’t look incompetent with the bat. Regardless, accepting NY does not sign Holliday, who is in left field and DH?
I still advocate for rotating Cabrera, Swisher, Damon, and (now) Granderson among the three outfield positions and DH. When Posada takes a day off, Posada DHs, and Swisher, Damon, and Granderson start. This will keep outfielders and catcher fresh while not losing too much offensive punch.
I liked Cameron before the Granderson deal, but not as certain now. Cameron’s WAR advantage came from defense, and with Granderson in center, Cameron does not seem to fit as well.
Why does everyone assume that the Yankees cant sing Holliday? Is it not still within the realm of possibility?
^^^^^^^^If they want to keep their payroll under $200 million as they have stated, they won’t be signing Holliday. Even without Holliday, the price of signing Pettitte, a relatively cheap DH, and other salary increases will bring it to roughly $200 million already.
Can we not afford to keep Melky to platoon with Granderson and keep Gardner as a backup outfielder, or are there better/cheaper options?
There is no reason in the universe to play Granderson against lefties. Replace his career 50 ops+ with Melky’s career 104 against lefties and our center field production will be awesome.
Yah, I’m an idiot. Melky only has an ops+ of 90 against lefties, still a massive improvement over Granderson though.
Mike Cameron for Left Field, Damon for DH. Melky will be an often used 4th outfielder and Brett Gardner can just be a late inning defensive replacement.
Halladay trade is possible. Hughes/Joba, Melky, and Montero…get it done Cash!
Yankees should call it a day with regards to trading prospects. I would much rather see them sign 3 project pitchers to minor league deals for as much money as Holliday or Lackey would cost. For the same cost as Lackey or Holliday without giving up prospects or draft picks, you could get Wang, Sheets and Bedard. With Hughes in the rotation and Joba in his rightful place in the bullpen only one of those pitchers needs to work out.
Is our cupboard bare? Do we have more prospects other than Montero to write home about ?
Trade Speed, Hustle, Grit, and Integrity for Halladay.
Brett Gardner, Shelley Duncan, Phil Hughes for Roy Halladay.
Gardner is NOT as good as Melky. I would not trade the Melkman. Let Damon and Matsui go. That’s 32 million, plus the Bruney trade is another 1.5 mil. Granderson’s deal is 3.5 million. Tacos compared to the gordita that Damon will be. So you’ve freed up a crap load of money. Trade for Roy, sign him to a 5 year deal. You get a Cy-Young capable starter still in his prime. You still may have enough money left over to sign a Jason Bay. I doubt that Bay will pull as much as Matt Holliday will.
Rotation: CC, Halladay, Burnett, Pettitte, Joba
DH Swish, put Melky in RF because he’s a lefty, C-Grand in CF, and Bay or Holliday in LF.
Wow you are spoiled… Plus if you do the math it will not work out. The roster you are proposing is way over 200 mil.
I don’t really care about having any prospects at this point. Team is built to win now, not five years from now.
There’s no spot for Montero on this team long term anyway. He can’t catch and we’ll sign Mauer next year anyway. 1B is Tex and we don’t need a full time DH type.
Just my thoughts.
I’d like to see the Yanks flip Melky and his 2nd year Arb Salary to Atlanta for Derke Lowe and Matt Diaz. We can make this work. Diaz can be Granderson’s caddy vs. LHP, he mashes vs. them (1100 OPS last year).
Lowe won’t be spectacular but as the familiar argument goes he will give us 200 IP of league average ball, which will be valuable given the injury situations surrounding AJ/Pettitte and the uncertainty Hughes and/or Joba may provide. Also with Kennedy departing we don’t really have a go-to 6th starter so consistency may be more valuable.
isn’t “less likely” more of the English way of talking than “more unlikely?”
so remaining needs are LF, DH and SP
DH and LF are part of the same need: do the Yankees need a full time DH? seems like AROD needs 2 or 3 games a month at DH, Posada may need 4 or 5 games a month at DH, and the rest could be used for giving guys a breather, which is why Damon is still such a good fit and Matsui is not. maybe trade Gardner and let Melky start in CF against left handed starters and start Melky in LF whenever Damon needs a day at DH. Jeter could use a day at DH every once in a while, too and it probably wouldn’t hurt the other every day guys like Tex, Swisher or Cano to grab some DH time either.
SP: CC and AJ already locked. Pettitte seems like a given… assuming the yankees stay true to their plan, they want to start Chamberlin and Hugues next year. so that’s five, right? i dont object to trading one of these guys, though… if it lands Roy, that is…
so after the LF/DH question gets settled, the yankees off season shopping might be done…
question about next year’s bullpen:
between injuries and location, Bruney has been a tough to deal with while he was in pinstripes. Coke had his moments but seemed to struggle later in the year. who will replace these guys in next year’s bullpen? the yankees usually carry 6 or 7 relievers?
Halladay in this rotation would be byond unfair!
If you have a rotation of CC and Halladay your BP doesn’t have to be that amazing. Both horses go deep.
GET IT DONE CASH MONEY! GET HALLADAY PULL THE TRIGGER!
Not sure why we would need to trade Melky or Gardner since Granderson is supposedly a plus bat in CF. If you have a plus bat in CF and a plus bat RF with Swish than having a negative bat in LF isn’t a big deal. Look back to the AROD trade we had a +bat at 2b in Soriano and traded for a +plus bat at 3rd and were left with a -bat at 2nd. Yanks still made the ALCS and Cairo was a pretty decent player that year. Keeping Melky and moving him to RF would be a + defensive move and still have Swish and his bat in LF.
Why would the Jays want Jackson over Montero, when they have Wells signed to that stupid contract and entrenched in CF? Most reports say they want Montero and Hughes/Joba, not Jackson.
Damon DH/LF (2yrs 13mil) Lackey (5yrs 90 mil)
I don’t back signing Lackey. If you’re giving out that kind of money…trade for and sign Halladay.
There’s no comparing him and Lackey at all.
very interesting reading some of the comments…ppl are suddenly so willing to empty out the farm that took years to make respectable…sounds like early 2000s yankee fans…where did the sentiment of building the farm go? im not crazy about trading for halladay i can see him declining…
Hey Cash, don’t listen to the idiots telling you to trade Montero for Halladay. Hitters like Montero come along once a decade at best. I’ll take an Edgar Martinez-like, if not Pujols-like, DH over what’s left of Halladay’s career any day of the week. You can’t ignore what Montero’s did at age 19 in Hi-A and AA.
“Butcher says:
December 9, 2009 at 10:07 am
I don’t really care about having any prospects at this point. Team is built to win now, not five years from now.
There’s no spot for Montero on this team long term anyway. He can’t catch and we’ll sign Mauer next year anyway. 1B is Tex and we don’t need a full time DH type.
Just my thoughts.”
Sorry, Butcher, but this might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen in print. Developing and maintaining a good farm system is the key to winning both short- and long-term. Prospects are worth way more than money, and farm depth is essential for so many reasons (not the least of which is the fact that injuries to the big league club are inevitable over the course of a season, and if you gut your farm, you end up replacing guys like Sabathia with guys like Igawa). Drafting and developing prospects is probably the single most important aspect to fielding a winning ballclub in this day and age.
Jesus Montero is the Yankees’ best prospect by leaps and bounds, and is considered to be the #1 or #2 hitting prospect in the minors right now. The numbers he is putting up at such a young age are obscene. If he stays at catcher, he will be incalculably valuable. He’s a once-in-a-generation bat. Think of how much you’d like to have Mauer on this team, then think about the fact that he’s going to cost $250 million dollars. Now, imagine getting that production for the LEAGUE MINIMUM. That’s the potential of a prospect like Jesus Montero.
Again, I’m sorry if this is condescending, but saying that you want to gut the farm and get rid of all your A+ prospects just to win now is borderline insane, and saying you don’t care about Montero is ludicrous. He’s the best positional prospect we’ve developed since Derek Jeter. Want to have 6 years of that for basically free? Keep the farm.
From one Yankee fan to another (hopefully).
My the scales on my fee look delish.
Montero is unproven at the MLB level right? So lets not go saying he’s the next Pujols.
How many “can’t miss prospects” have come through? Isn’t this site named after one of them?
Just remember that. Halladay will pitch at a high level until he’s in his late 30′s early 40′s….that’s more of a sure thing than some guy who can hit at A and AA.
Did I come to LoHud by mistake?
“Halladay will pitch at a high level until he’s in his late 30’s early 40’s….that’s more of a sure thing than some guy who can hit at A and AA.”
I don’t think that’s true. Montero is hyped a bit, sure. If you want to nitpick with him, you could worry about his patience at the plate. But the number of pitchers who are elite into their 40s is vanishingly small.
Halladay is excellent. He will probably age reasonably well, and still be a good pitcher when he’s 38 or so (which is relevant because it would be a trade & sign, with a 4-5 year extension most likely). But this team already has a lot of players signed to long-term deals paying them 15-20 mil a year. Halladay would be another. That limits their flexibility if they need to patch a hole (due to injury, sudden decline, whatever). Halladay, being a pitcher, entering his mid thirties, is a major risk.
Montero is a special prospect. He’s also one of the few real position player prospects the Yankees have, with Jackson gone (though I wasn’t big on AJax anyway).
I just have one question about Montero. Where do you play him on this Yankees team (next 5 years)?
I just don’t see him being a catcher. I agree his bat his excellent for his age/level, but…nothing is for sure with him at this point.
I don’t know if I can handle a career of a guy who’s a terrible defensive catcher. In 2011 Gerald Laird, who will be 31, at that time will be available FA. Mauer also if he is not extended.
I just gave the cheaper option and the more expensive option. Either way it’d allow us to get Halladay and move Montero. You might be trading away a + bat, but you might also win 2-3 more WS over the next 5 years with Halladay in this rotation.
Either way the team is solid.
Trade Speed, Hustle, Grit, and Integrity for Halladay.
Brett Gardner, Shelley Duncan, Phil Hughes for Roy Halladay.
1. How do you trade Duncan when he’s not a Yankee.
2. Some of you people are delusional with the Bay or Holliday + Doc talk. How many 16-20 mil a year players do we need.
3. Didnt we just win a champioship?
4. I know anything can happen but from the sounds of Montero do we really trade him? This kid sound like he’s the real deal.
Halladay is not gonna happen! I would love for him to be in the 2010 rotation, but the yanks will have to give up more than just Joba and Montero to get him. Plus add the fact that he would want a contract extension and he’s gonna ask for CC and Santana money b/c he’s worth it.
Halladay at 1yr for his current 16mil is more than worth it, but we already traded our top prospect and the new GM for Toronto just can’t accept players who aren’t major league ready in return for a former cy young, unless he thinks the Johan Santana deal was a great one for minnesota.
Cashman knows what he’s doing and he stays quiet like a good GM should and strikes at the right moment.
Plus, to all those annoying yankee fans who think other teams should give us their best players for our scraps, grow up and be a realist. I’m a huge yankee fan, but I’m also a fan of the sport.
I still don’t see how it affects trading for Halladay. Like Granderson, Jackson’s value comes as a center fielder. I mean I guess they could move Wells to right, but would that make his contract even worse?
I think that arguing Melky doesn’t produce enough offense for a corner OF position doesn’t play the same for the Yankees as it does for many other teams.
The Yankees get above average production from other non-traditional offensive positions (SS,2b & C) in addition to other-worldly production from even the traditional power positions that losing some offense in LF wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.
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