So many implications of Javy Vazquez returning to NY
Tuesday, December 22, 2009 at 10:19 am by SJK
Wow. This offseason is crazy. Javy Vazquez is headed back to the Boogie Down after a brief stay in 2004. We knew Melky or Gardner would be traded after the Granderson move, because they were just too many CFs. And while Mike Dunn is a solid relief prospect, we'd trade bullpen parts all day. Arodys Vizcaino stings a little.
Here are Vazquez's numbers since he left NY:
2005-2009 (Arizona, White Sox, Atlanta)
1062.2 IP
Average 213 IP per season
110 ERA+
4.09 ERA
8.7 K/9
2.2 BB/9
4.00 K/BB
1.203 WHIP
8.6 H/9
And his FIP has improved in each of those years from 4.06, 3.86, 3.80, 3.74, 2.77
This is a solid move based on what the Yankees gave up.
So many implications of this trade though....
1. As we thought out loud last night, what does this mean for Phil and Joba? Have the Yankees given up on one of them? Does Joba get sent back to his fist-pumping ways of the bullpen? Does one of them get traded?
2. What does this mean for the OF? One of the ideas we've been discussing in NoMaas HQ is the possibility of playing Gardner in CF, since his fielding was fantastic there last season, and moving Granderson to LF. That would make for a very good defensive OF.
3. Or maybe the silent assassin lurks for Holliday. Although at this point, Cashman would likely have to approach the Steinbrenners for more money. If that happened, we'd poop our pants.
4. Yanks clearly have some work to do in replenishing the farm, after the two trades they've made.
I would also still take a flyer on Sheets.
Mike, maybe you should go to jizzhut and relax for a little bit. In his 4 years in the AL he has been an average pitcher who eats innings and strikes dudes out. Solid 4th starter for a contender.
We are much deeper than in 2004, so if his pinkeye returns the team will go in another direction sooner than later.
And if it really doesnt work out they can let Nick Swisher pitch and put Hanley Ramirez in RF.
Pete Abe, you are right. You are so very very stupid.
Worst.trade.ever. Vazquez is a bum. don’t care what his stats were in the NL. Worst post season pitcher ever too. Dunn was best Lefty in farm who was not a starter. No problem trading Melkey, but not for that guy. had no problem with platoon of Melky and the new guy from LA. I will never forget 2004, and since Kevin Brown is retired, Vazquez is the last link to the worst moment in Yankee history. Wouldn’t take him for free.
Great deal if we sign Damon or Holliday otherwise I am concerned about the OF depth. Javy will be a great upgrade over anyone who the Yankees had in the 4 spot last year and this will allow Hughes and Joba another year to see if they can ease into a starters role.
How does it allow Hughes or Joba another year? One of them is done as a Yankee starter.
They can battle for the 5 spot,both are on strict pitch counts and the better of the two will be the 5th starter. The other will be in the bull pen or traded
Cashman said that going into this season just Hughes will be on strict pitch count. That may factor into the decision.
did the Interested Reader opine ?
The way people are acting you’d think the Yankees just traded Jeter for Casey Fossum. They got rid of Melky (the least dangerous part of what was going to be the lineup), Mike Dunn (a relief pitcher) and a good prospect (always question marks that will make this a great or retarded trade). Not that much all things considered. Vazques is a good pitcher. He allows the Yankees to compete with veteran pitchers and just hope both Joba and Hughes finally get it. And if one of the vets goes down (AJ and Pettite have health issues) they now have someone slated to take that spot. This makes the bullpen that much better with Joba/Hughes going down… makes the team way better for next year. Lets wait til after the season to determine how it will affect the future since we really don’t know.
three words for you
SIX
MAN
ROTATION
I do know. Saw this movie before, didn’t like it. Vasquez can pitch under the bright lights. Awful in post season, and those two prospects the Yankee sgave up WILL make the Majors. For a one year rental of a Taurus.
4.75 ERA for Vazquez. Write it down.
Ah yes, the old sucks in the post season canard. Also code for “I have no idea about what I just wrote.”
SEEEEEEE YAAAAAA melky! Talk about selling high! We got a GREAT #4 starter for the melk man! Are you ppl crazy? Javy vazquez threw ONE BAD PITCH. I promise he will not come in from the bullpen with the bases loaded in game 7 again. We have a bunch of other guys for that. And we only needed 3 starters this year so we may not see him at all the play offs! But if you look at the pitching market + our internal options this was a GREAT deal. He will put up better #’s than pettite and be more consistent than AJ.
Did I mention we got rid of melky? SEEEEEE YAAAAA!!!
So he pitches one good year for the Braves (something everyone does), and he is our answer. Lay off the Kool-Aid. Too much to give up for a guy that will fade in September.
I like how you try and present your opinion as fact 27rings. Very nice.
One bad pitch??? In his 3 years in Chicago (after the Yanks), he has an ERA of over 4.60 two of the three years. Add to that he was actually worse for them in the post-season that he was for us. Look it up. I also believe that some guys aren’t made for the bright lights of NYC, and he is one of them.
Let’s bring Pavano back too. He was great for the Twins.
Hughes back to set up. He’s proven to be solid there. Joba should be the 5th starter. They need to let him go fully this year though…at this point either he’s going to be a starter or he’s not. Lets find out. Can’t keep babying his arm. I’m sure he’s sick of it too.
Groom Hughes to take over for Mo. I think this would be a good game plan. Not everything works out, but I believe this is the best plan.
4.60 era is 6 innings 3 runs(roughly). From a #4 starter in the AL this is good. And if it comes with 190-210k’s over 200IP yanks will cruise.
He was an ALL-STAR the first half of the season with the yanks, were the “bright lights” not on yet? Not to mention we gave up a a 270BA 10HR 60RBI 320obp guy for him.
If he did not give up that HR to damon this wouldn’t even be a discussion.
And if he was on the team this year he would have pitched 0 post season innings so I’m not concerned about post season performances right now.
Swish didn’t hit a lick in the postseason should we have traded him instead of melk man???
The old “sucks in the post season” canard indeed. It’s too bad we gave big money to CC Sabathia since he sucked in the post-season prior to joining the Yankees.
I love how people are calling Vazquez a #4 starter when he is better than AJ Burnett & Andy Pettite. Has anyone seen his CAIRO projections for this year? Also have people seen how his FIP has gotten progressively lower each year in the last 4 years. This is a very good pickup for the Yankees and people who say “He can’t pitch in the postseason” should remember they said the same thing about CC. (I didn’t because I have an IQ over 30)
27 Rings you probably still walk around saying AROD isn’t “Clutch” right? It’s all AROD’s fault
I think Vazquez is a 4 and that is not an insult. When AJ is on, he is absolutely dominant. The 15 inning Red Sox game turned the season around and game 2 of the WS prevented us from being in a 2-0 hole. I know he is up and down but he has better stuff than 95% of MLB starters. Pettitte is the 3 by default as they can go lefty, righty, lefty righty
I for one welcome our new (old) $11 million a year fourth starter. Jesus Christ. At least we haven’t given up too much for him either time.
Even if you decide to be ignorant and pass off his 2009 season as a fluke, Vazquez was worth 14.9 wins above replacement during this three-year stint in Chicago. For a starting pitcher, that is, without a doubt, in the upper echelon. In 2008 he was worth 4.8 wins, about the same as Zack Greinke and Johan Santana.
All of the idiots who are labeling Javy as a guy who can’t pitch in NY must have been watching hockey for the first half of the 2004 season. A guy doesn’t tear up the first half of the season before suddenly waking up and realizing he’s pitching in Yankee Stadium. The rapid decline is much more characteristic of an injury, which Vazquez obviously suffered among other ailments. If you want to point at guys who can’t handle the stage, point at guys like Jaret Wright, Jeff Weaver, and the King of the Krippled, Carl Pavano. Guys that are intimidated by the stage are not guys who had the extended period of success that Vazquez had. 2004 was an outlier, and he will return to form this year. And as a fourth starter who will be matching up with the likes of Joe Saunders, David Price, Gavin Floyd, etc. Huge advantage, especially when the postseason rolls around and the Yanks go back to a three man crew.
He is a mediocre pitcher. Lifetime mark under .500 before last season. $11.5M and 3 good young players is too much. Especially for only one season. Joba is his equal right now with a much greater upside. who’s our lefty in the bullpen now?
“Lifetime mark under .500 before last season.”
So, half the time he was the pitcher of record at the last lead change, his team won, and half the time they lost. I know that’s the best way to evaluate how he pitched!
It was a great pickup. We sold high on Melky and suddenly our biggest hole is filled. a veteran SP who can give us 200IP and strike guys out. I love Joba and Hughes but relying on them to be #4 and #5 scared the crap out of me. Now we have the best #5 in the league and a great setup man to Mo (doesn’t matter which is which). If Javy blows well then he is gone – 1y 11.5 mil… better then 5y 86 mil Lackey got. If Javy does great and we let him wlak then we get two first round picks. The 18 year old prospect seems like a loss but a lot can happen between 18 and the majors (just ask Tabata and a million other cant miss guys). Be happy this was an awesome trade and it may mean we end up with Holliday in the end to play LF
hey, all this talk of pitchers and outfielders… anyone else concerned that we have a 36 yr old SS and a 34 yr old 3B who doesnt have The Hudson anymore?
What if something happens to one of them?
Ramiro Pena? Hairston? Derosa? Yeesh.
That’s where we need depth.
Whadda ya say we trade The Farm + Joba for HANLEY RAMIREZ – and put Hanley in LF (literally watching Derek and Alex’s backs)!
Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results, especially when said performance is in Quadruple-A ball.
All you stat nerds were probably jacking off with both hands like this when the Yanks landed Kevin Brown too. Wonder what he’s up to now, I bet he could have been had for cheap. Vazquez sucked out loud for the Yankees when it counted. Can’t believe I’m reading shit like “He had a great first half in 2004.” Guess what? He had the worst full season of his career here. After last year he has nowhere to go but down.
If I remember correctly, the Yankees had another unfortunate run-in with an overpaid starter who had a career year in Atlanta. Wish I could remember that guy’s anem
Vazquez is better than Pettite and AJ? Stop smoking those funny cigarettes. And please stop comparing Vazquez to A-Rod, CC, Bonds, Ruth, etc. He is mediocre and he has been below that in October. Is there any reason to believe it will be different this time? he is a number 5 starter, and we did give up too much. It took the Yanks 8 years to find some good lefty’s in the pen, and now we have traded two of them away. Let’s hope Marte is ready for a career year. And if we have Derosa or Gardner in LF next year, that much worse.
“And as a fourth starter who will be matching up with the likes of Joe Saunders, David Price, Gavin Floyd, etc. Huge advantage”
Ah, yes. Because all 32 baseball teams strictly adhere to the “matchup our fourth starter against their fourth starter for all 162 games” policy.
This is so foolish it wouldn’t be worth commenting on, if not for the fact that so many people are supporting. Outside of the first 2 weeks of a season, our fourth starter is just as likely to face the others teams’s ace as they are their fourth starter.
“Ah, yes. Because all 32 baseball teams strictly adhere to the “matchup our fourth starter against their fourth starter for all 162 games” policy.”
That’s why I listed the types of guys who will be slotted in the three spot for most rotations. I hope you would agree that Vazquez is superior to pitchers comparable of the names I mentioned, which means more often then not the Yanks will have the upper hand when it comes to match-ups on the hill.
Also, the last time I checked, there were only 30 MLB teams. I will research this though. I could be wrong.
He is. I just think it’s incorrect to assume that being our fourth starter gives any indication as to who he gets matched up against after the first two weeks. Guys miss starts, get moved around, get suspended for 5 games for throwing at Kevin Youkilis (but not for throwing at Jeter). It is completely unpredictable. He could just as easily make 20 starts next year against another teams’s ace.
And I will spare you the research. I checked. You’re right about the 30 teams! ;)