Yankees did not optimize their bench options
Monday, February 8, 2010 at 11:54 pm by SJK
Cashman said this on January 6th:
"I consider this position I’m playing in as a bench role," said Cashman. "Right-handed hitting outfielder that Joe can look on the bench and say, I’m not going to start one of my left-handers, I’m going to start a right-hander."
And on Monday, they announced the signing of Marcus Thames to a minor-league deal.
"He hits left-handed pitching well and we know him as a person so we will see where it takes us," Brian Cashman said of the career .256 hitter with a .516 slugging percentage and 40 homers and 105 RBIs in 620 at-bats against lefties.
Well, that's all fine and dandy, but...
Thames versus LHP: .256/.329/.516 in 691 PAs
Reed Johnson versus LHP: .313/.378/.463 in 1027 PAs
Thames career UZR/150 in LF: -12.2
R. Johnson career UZR/150 in LF: +23.3
Johnson signed for $800k. Thames gets $900k if he makes the team. Johnson was a better option than Thames and came cheaper (if Thames makes the team).
While it seems to be sacrilege to critique the Yankees front office nowadays (is the Kool-Aid coming south?), we're not afraid to say that Cashman & Co could have used their remaining funds better.
Eric Hinske + Reed Johnson > Randy Winn + Marcus Thames
Tags: cashman, hinske, offseason, reed johnson, thames, winn
but in all fairness we dont know the medical records and the concerns the yanks had with reed’s back, was that a reason to hold out on him? prolly not but i like the thames signing over winn who i believe will get released b4 the year is over
Comparing uzr ratings of bench players now??
Sabremetrics + NoMaas offseason reporting = boring bullshit
if a player is gonna get spot starts, wouldnt you rather have the better all-around player, Jack Ass?
Maybe Reed Johnson had no interest in playing for the Yankees. Maybe the same was true of Hinske. Johnson also had significant health issues attached to him.
Maybe there were better options, but available options? Maybe not.
How would we ever know that Darrelle? Fans don’t know what players/agents tell the Yankees. All fans can do is react.
Um, Reed Johnson required a major league contract, and a guaranteed place on the 25- and 40-man.
Marcus Thames didn’t. The Yankees can stash Thames in the minor leagues as depth if better players beat him out. They didn’t have that flexibility with Johnson. To me, it looks like the Yankees made the correct choice in going for a better all-around player in Winn, and a similar lefty-mashing one-tool guy in Thames, than simply going only for Reed Johnson, who would probably get injured anyway with his balky back.
I’m not against criticizing the FO, but you’re dead-wrong on this (these) one(s).
Randy Winn’s a 12 yr vet with a 286 lifetime avg and Marcus Thames is a serviceable backup who the Yanks have always been high on since they drafted him… I don’t see playing monday morning quarterback with everything Cashman does.. Who knows what Johnson’s medical report said?? I mean the guy has the tag oft injured.
And since when are all these frigging ratings the end all be all in determining the better all around player for the needs of a team? If that were the case guys like Luis Sojo would’ve never seen the inside of the Yankees clubhouse.
…. and Jack ass was really clever you sophomoric cunt
I don’t mean to get all stat-y on you, but outfield UZRs are linear. Therefore, it’s important to take into account an outfielder’s defense in all three positions. You want the largest sample possible, and that makes Reed Johnson’s LF defensive projection something like +4 or +5 per 150 games in 2010. And that’s before factoring in his back problems. You guys are seriously overrating him.
We should have signed Claudell Washington or Ellis Valentine. I hear they’re available.
I’m not too excited about the Yankee bench…then again I wasn’t too excited about it last year either.
A Luis Sojo reference! Holy shitola.
2 MILLION BETWEEN WINN AND THAMES. i COULD HAVE SIGN DYE OR DAMON WITH A LITTLE MORE
I miss the days when this site was intentionally (and actually) funny. Now it’s just a joke of a place where we get daily posts bitching about not signing Reed Johnson. Get yourselves together.
And I thought we were bad. The people posting on here would have anal with Cashman if given the chance.
LOL I believe MP speaks the truth, NoMaas has gone down hill lately but it all could be cause its the offseason, wait till the season starts and nick johnson breaks a leg while trying to field a bunt from juan pierre im sure they will come up with something funny for you
The interviews with John Manuel were great. What you talkin’ about nigga?
Why would the DH get hurt fielding a bunt?
If the bunt is foul and rolls into the dugout
Hey Pauly D: Hilarious. Unfortunately, probably prophetic,but funny nonetheless.
As for the merits of the original post, if our biggest problem is Winn and Thames over Reed Johnson and Eric Hinske, 2010 is gonna be awesome.
Wait until Nick Johnson gets hurt getting out of bed is more like it. The guy gets hurt crossing the street.
I’m setting the over under on games played for him this year at 90.
Why is Nomaas acting like it is taking some bold stand in having wanted Reed Johnson. Many fans wanted Reed Johnson. Why is Nomaas acting like nobody criticizes Cashman when a huge chunk of the fan base thinks our hopes left with Damon and Matsui (not to mention the Reed Johnson fans).
I have no problem with the overall point here but it isn’t that radical or rebellious guys.
Off topic, but have you guys seen the feud that interested reader and Schilling are involved in? Very funny…big time LOLs on both sides.
Johnson Johnson Johnson… if you love him so much, Nomaas, why don’t you marry him!
I agree..Hinske and Johnson would have been perfect as two of your bench guys:
Cervelli C
Pena 2B-SS-3B
Hinske 1B-3B-LF-RF
Johnson LF-CF-RF
Johnson can be your RH option, Hinske the LH option. Johnson’s ability to crush LHP and his good defense, is just part of what he brings. His hustle and good clubhouse presence is also highly valuable…Hinske showed us last year he can hit for power, plus he offers adequate options at the IF and OF corners…If Cashman diodn’t ry to cut corners in filling the 24th and 25th roster spots, we caopuld have had a GREAT versatile bench with Cervelli, Pena, Hinske and Johnson….Cashman dropped the ball on this.
UZR UZR UZR….I’d rather listen to my girlfriend bitch about work than hear about UZR.
You guys are funny.
For all the crap you gave about Giradi using Cody Ransom last year you go out and pick a scrap heap player like Reed Johnson to latch on to. Give it a rest.
I’m surprised you nomassians aren’t still whining about not getting Adam Dunn last year.
Seriously guys, get over it. I want to go play for a winner with Torre. I am not the be-all, end-all or the saviour of the team. Winn and Thames will do fine.
It is nice to see that NoMass has picked not signing Reed Johnson as their battle cry when we let Johnny Damon and Matsui go. I am sorry but the Yankees winning or not winning the title will have nothing to do with the Reed Johnson, Eric Hinske, Randy Winn or Marcus Thames
here’s the abraham vs. schilling link butcher talked about:
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/02/schilling_sox_s.html
Steve says:
February 9, 2010 at 9:46 am
Why would the DH get hurt fielding a bunt?
because he will play ocational 1b when they give teix a day off, so that first day you will see nick get hurt in a freak accident while fielding a bunt when he stumbles over the giant gum ball he spitted out while scratching his crotch when that hot broad in 1b line flashed him
We’re assuming about Reed Johnson, though. Guess where he was born? California. Who says he would have even considered the Yankees at that price? He could be a Dodger fan who wanted to play for his team, and would have required a more substantial offer from the Yankees.
Why would Reed Johnson have signed AFTER the Yankees had already signed Hinske??
I understand that we can argue all day about Winn vs. Johnson or Winn vs. Hinske, but the Yankees were never going to sign BOTH of those guys b/c neither of them would sign up to be a 5th OFer if they had reasonable alternative options. Which they did.
you have to admit, life is pretty sweet when the biggest thing you can come up with to argue about is who your 4th outfielder is going to be.
I guess Cerveli won over yankees fans hearts and minds; he’s going to get more starts than any other Yankees bench player, right? I just can’t see a lot of managers going to their bullpen and bringing in a lefty specialist to pitch to Brett Gardner…
How come everybody gets on me as injury prone? Since I became a starter in Montreal in 2004, I had a bad, injury-plagued season in 2004, played 130 games in 2005, 150 games in 2006, missed all of 07 and most of 08 recovering from what people called the worst on field injury they’ve ever seen and played 130 games in 09. Sure, I’m not a horse, but I think most people go a little overboard. I’m excited to come back home and DH here. Expect to see Derek on third every time he leads off with a single.
How ’bout them Jets?
Fuck Reed Johnson!!
Butcher says:
February 9, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Off topic, but have you guys seen the feud that interested reader and Schilling are involved in? Very funny…big time LOLs on both sides.
Yeah, Schill har far too much time on his hands now.
In his next life, he plans on switching to the left, and
being the campaign manager for Martha Coakley I hear.
If they don’t trade Melky for a guy who can’t pitch in the AL than we aren’t discussing their bench at all since Gardener would be on the bench and he is better than Hinske, Winn, Johnson, and Thames. They traded all of their potential OF depth for guy who need to prove themselves in the big market…that is a bigger risk than not signing Johnson or Hinske and adding Winn and Thames. Now w/o that depth there aren’t many moves they can make to improve the team during the season.
I have the single highest at bat / home run ratio in Tigers history at 14.8. I hit a home run every 14.8 at bats. I’m not a huge liability defensively, and I don’t get hurt. With Granderson and/or Gardner patrolling centerfield, I don’t think I’m needed to be a plus plus defender anyway. In short, I’m a righty who hits a lot of home runs and plays the corner outfield spots. Sounds like a perfect fit to me. UZR is bullshit anyone who watches baseball instead of watching numbers knows that Robinson Cano had more value in the field than -5.0 UZR/150
I can backupin left if anyones interested….. anyone?? ……hello??