Philadelphia Daily News’ Bill Conlin responds to reader with virtual crotch grab
Thursday, March 11, 2010 at 11:58 am by SJK
This morning, a NoMaas reader named Matt Williams sent us an email exchange he had Wednesday with longtime Philadelphia Daily News sports columnist, Bill Conlin. Bill caused a bit of a stir when he penned an article proclaiming the Phillies have the best infield of baseball's modern era. The point of this post isn't to debate Conlin's findings or evaluate Matt's counter-argument. Rather, we'd like to show you Bill Conlin's standards of professionalism.
Matt's initial email:
I read your article about the Phillies infield today. I had several major issues with it. I'm not saying that the Yankees infield is the greatest of all time, but I am pretty sure it's better than Philly's.
First of all, Ryan Howard is unreal vs right handed pitching. But he is a horrible hitter vs left handed pitching. He's below replacement value vs left handers. His OBP last year was below .300 and his slugging % was barely over .350 vs left handers. Because of the fact that Philly overpaid him, they are forced to use a subpar hitter in the middle of the line up vs left handed pitching. Prior to his slight rebound last year, he had declined in 3 straight years in BA/OBP/Slugging %. Mark Teixeira on the other hand is a switch hitter that is much more constistant as a hitter. He won't put up 50+ HR's, but he won't have an OBP less than .300 either. Remember, the goal in baseball is not to create an out. I would say it's a push because Howard is THAT good vs right handed pitching, but his weakness vs left handed pitching is too great to just say he's a better hitter. Defensively I would call it a push.
Chase Utley is a better player than Robinson Cano, no arguments there.
Jimmy Rollins is fast declining as a SS. His BA/OBP/Slugging % numbers have decreased 3 straight years. Jeter is still Jeter. Defensively, Rollins is better but Jeter's offense more than makes up for that.
Alex Rodriguez is hands down better than Placido Polanco and it's not even close.
Saying that A-Rod puts an asterisk on an all time great infield is just a cop out. He admitted to PED use years ago. That has nothing to do with the 2009 or 2010 season. He was never suspended for steroids because face it, MLB looked the other way. It's not fair to penalize A-Rod for something he admitted to before joining the Yankees when you don't know if someone on the Phillies used or not. One can make an arguement that it's not natural that Ryan Howard hit 58 HR's in one year, which is more than A-Rod ever did. How do we know Howard wasn't juicing that year? He never hit more than 50 HR's in any other season.
If you add longevity, the Yankees infield is clearly better. The 4 players have been teammates 2 straight years and it could very well end up being together 5 or 6 years depending on what happens with Robinson Cano.
Polanco is the difference. If Philly had a better 3rd baseman, it would be a fair argument.
Nothing disrespectful from Matt, right? Tone of the email isn't inflammatory. Well, Bill Conlin responded to this email with one word and one word only:
STEROIDS
Upon receiving this, Matt became a bit agitiated and replied:
I'm sorry that you can't admit that Ryan Howard sucks vs LHP and saying Polanco is better than A-Rod because of steriods is just LOL. What's sad is that you probably have a Hall of Fame vote. Like I said earlier, what does taking steroids in 2003 and earlier have to do w/ playing 3rd base in 2010? Just out of curiousity, if someone on Philly get's caught w/ PED or steroids, are you going to retract that statement?
Bill Conlin quickly fired back:
Had a HOF vote for 44 years, ace. Retract this.
Wow. How do writers who treat readers like this keep their jobs? Newspapers nowadays aren't really in the position to respond like this to their main source of revenue generation.
Never trust a man with this amount of facial hair
Philly chicks dig the greasy Scott Cahn look. It’s true, I run through the pigs in Roxboro.
The Phanatic looks like he’s performing a constant blowjob.
Utley and Cano?
Sure, okay, Utley is better, right now.
But it is not a blowout and nobody should be surprised if Robby catches up. Utley didnt have a full season until age 26. Last year Cano was in his 5th full season at 26.
Their 26 numbers:
Utley
.291 .376 .540 .915
Cano
.320 .352 .520 .871
I had a few email exchanges with writers before and its clear they don’t actually read what they are responding 2. They only hear the music in their own heads
utley that better than cano? i don’t think so! if anything, our man matt over there was generous.
Howard vs. Tex: “Defensively I would call it a push”
Is that a joke? No chance Howard is as good at first as Tex. Am I the only one who sees there’s something wrong with that statement?
Even if Utley and Cano had similar age 26 seasons, Utley plays as good or better defense, gets on base more and steals 15 bases a season at an exceptional rate.
Losing out to Utley means only that Cano is (debatably) the second best 2B in baseball. I don’t think we need to be upset by this possibility.
Conlin is right. STERIODS. There’s a reason you get a 50 game suspension for using them.
For the record, Ryan Howard using steroids has never even been a thought. Have you seen his twin brother? Just as big. Get over it. He’s the most proficient steroid free power hitter since griffey and the big hurt.
Cano vs Utley? Get real. Utley is already a sure thing first ballot HOFer. Where was Cano in the world series? He barely showed up that postseason. If you want to be the man you need to show up when it counts. Utley only hit .167 in the WS last year but who can forget his first AB home run? Phils never looked back after that.
If you count CHOOOCH in this argument it really favors the phillies.
I’d also say Cano is the 2nd best 2B in the AL East.
We’ll be lucky if Cano ever has a five-season run like Utley has had. Since 2005, Chase hasn’t had a WAR less than 6.8 and has touched 8.0 twice.
I’m a big Cano fan, but Utley is the best second basemen in the league by a wide margin. Maybe Cano will one day have a season like Utley, but I doubt we ever see the sustained production from him.
@nate:
“Get real. Utley is already a sure thing first ballot HOFer.”
Ummm, no. Sorry.
Chase has only played seven seasons in the MLB (and in ’03 and ’04 he had 439 PAs total). Let’s see him do it for another decade or so and then you can start talking HOF.
You’re smoking some series stuff if you think you only have to play five full seasons to be a first ballot Hall of Famer. I guess you’re a Don Mattingly enthusiast?
@Gary. I apologize. I should have clarified.
I expect Utley to be a first ballot HOFer by the end of his career. And I also expect him to win multiple gold gloves, too.
Philadelphia is a shithole, but Chase Utley is worlds better than Cano.
That’s not a clarification. You were very clear: he was ALREADY a sure thing first ballot Hall of Famer. Now you’re changing your tune, but at least you realize that was egregious statement.
I’d say it’ll be tough for Chase, just because his career got off the ground so late. He’s already 30 years old and he would need to have at least another five years like the last and then some more good ones. That’s a lot to ask as it will be encompassing a good deal of his decline phase.
Just to be clear, I’m not betting against him, because he is absolutely a phenomenal player. I’m just saying the odds and time aren’t exactly on his side.
@gary:
I still am saying he’s going to be a first ballot HOFer. I’ll bet you $10. Bookmark this page and see me in 12-15 years.
“STERIODS. There’s a reason you get a 50 game suspension for using them.”
Just like JC Romero. Face it, your one title in the last 25 years was tainted by a steroid-using pitcher. I can’t wait to get my JC Romeroid jersey.
Hypocrite.
Stop. You cannot compare Romero and AROD.
Romero took 6-OXO which was purchased at a vitamin shoppe in Cherry Hill NJ for $29.99. When the suspension was announced he immediately acknowledged he make a mistake and accepted the suspension. He did not appeal the suspension.
AROD was injecting illegal steriods. He knew it was against the rules and denied doing it for how long? Could you buy what AROD was injecting in GNC? not a chance.
AROD = first degree murder.
Romero = manslaughter.
Wow. Are Philadelphia fans as Kool-Aid drinking as Red Sox fans?
Romeroid said he didn’t know what he was taking had steroids in it. Riiiight. You do realize that was the same defense that Barry Bonds and Gary Sheffield used…Regardless of what happened, he still tested positive for an illegal substance and served a 50-game suspension. When A-Rod “cheated” there were no rules in baseball against what he was doing. So how can you say he cheated with no rules against it?
Also, check out what your boy Mike Schmidt has to say about A-Rod.
Romero = Broke the rules
A-Rod = Never broke a rule
Phillies fans have to be kidding if they think the overrated Jimmy Rollins is better then Derek Jeter.
Here’s his email if anyone else wants it. I called him a piece of shit.
bill1chair@aol.com
Voomo Zanzibar: Are you joking? A 20+ point difference in OBP and 20 point difference in slugging is huge. Not to mention that Utley is the best defensive second baseman in all of baseball. Cano will never be as good a player as Utley.
Andy C: Not to say I think Howard is a better first baseman than Tex, cause I don’t, but the difference in their defense is pretty meaningless. Howard really isn’t as horrible as his reputation makes it seem. He’s improved his range a lot and though he still makes a throwing error he shouldn’t every now and then, he’s a slightly-to-moderately above average defensive first baseman. That said, first base isn’t a position where good defense is extremely valuable. It’s much more important up the middle, and in terms of defense, the Phillies’ infield has that battle won.
Please do not email him and call him names. If you want to email him and talk about why his logic is flawed, that’s OK. But it’s pointless to get into an argument.
Matt Williams
In some ways, I think Philly fans are worse than Boston fans.
Utley-
.282/.395/.505- 112 R, 31 HR, 23 SB, 93 RBI, 136 OPS+
Cano
.320/.352/.520- 103 R (batting 7th), 25 HR, 85 RBI (batting 7th), 129+
Is Utley better overall? Yes probably. Cano puts up nearly the same power and run producing stats BATTING 7th. He also gives you more Hits, which are better for advancing runners than walks. doubles, hit. Did i mention he is 4 YEARS YOUNGER than Utley?
Utley > Cano is closer than people think and Cano’s defense is underrated. But Utley is the only Philly infielder better than the Yankees counterpart.
Tex and his GG defense (not to mention 40HR/120RBI, higher batting avg, switch hitter) over Howard who looked like a little leaguer the lefty Marte. Jeter and his .400 OBP or Rollins and his .290 OBP? Arod vs. Polanco is such a joke that it is not even worth discussing.
The order of rank for the infielders is AROD, Utley, Tex, Howard, Cano, Jeter, Rollins, Polanco.
Funny too how this Bill character ignored the Catcher position. I’d like to see the argument for Ruiz over Posada.
In fact, including catcher, the yankees infield has 5 HOF players/borderline HOF players (arod/jeter 1st ballot, posada already in consideration 2 more years may help, Tex a possibility, Cano has 875 hits through age 26, 3000 not impossible)
Utley’s better than Cano, let’s be honest guys. Cano will hit for a better average, but Utley will get on base more, generally hit for more power (although Cano has improved), and he also steals bases at an excellent rate, which is one skill Cano doesn’t have at all. Does that mean Cano sucks? Absolutely not. Can he end up better than Utley? Well, it’s possible, but I don’t know if Cano will ever improve his patience more than a tiny bit, so I expect Utley to be better unless he declines earlier (which is quite possible, but we’re talking about now). Cano’s good, but Utley’s better.
However, the difference between Utley and Cano is miniscule compared to the difference between A-Rod and Polanco. Even if you give the Phillies a push at first (fair) and shortstop (not fair, Jeter’s better, gets on base way more, but solely for the sake of argument and since Jeter is getting old and I guess you never know when the decline is coming, we’ll pretend for a second it’s a push), the Yankees have a better infield because A-Rod is worlds better than Polanco, while Utley is only somewhat better than Cano.
Doc: Look at how many errors RyHo has made = 64 in 706 games, while Tex has committed 35 in 1005 games. That’s meaningless?
Utley’s other game asepct is definately better, though as far as HOF chances go it’s hard to say, Cano has a much stronger head start to him. but I can’t see him having that sort of peak. though he has a better chance of amassing those count stats.
Still, Chase probably hits enough to keep his career going if he moves off 1B anyway. but really, 1st ballot HOF are not nearly as easy as one say. (not to meantion depending on some luck) Utley is good, but he’s nowhere near Roger Hornsby good nor is he really even near Joe Morgan good.
Tex vs Howard? Tex.
Cano vs Utley? Cano…but its not a wide margin.
Jeter vs. Rollins? Rollins is fading, offensively and defensively.
Arod vs. Plalacido? Seriously?
I would also like to add that people used to say Arod was steriod free. Obviously he wasnt…..but do we really believe Howard is steriod free? I dont. Many people felt similiarly about David Ortiz, then they act all shocked.
PLACIDO POLANCO LOL! I mean you guys are seriously saying an IF is the best in modern times with PLACIDO POLANCO being a part of it! LOL @ you guys.
Rollins is one of the most over rated players in the game. Hands down…I wouldn’t be surprised if he was a roids guy either. Not that I even have a problem with that.
Pedro I don’t believe that Howard is roid free. I would almost bet he’s juiced. But there’s nothing wrong with that fact in my eyes either.
Polanco @ 6 mil a year for the next three years. Now that was a great signing by Amaro.
The guy would’ve taken arb if offered by the Tigers…and the Phils gave him 6 a year! LOL.
As a Yankee fan, people arguing that Cano is better than Utley makes us look really stupid.
Rollins was one of the worst hitters in baseball last season. He shouldn’t be in any conversation with Jeter. It would be more appropriate to discuss him with new-Phillie Cody Ransom
Apparently Conlin has been suspended before for making racist remarks:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/29626-media-philly-columnist-bill-conlin-suspended-for-racist-remarks
I am a huge Yankee fan, but i would take Utley over Cano every day of the week. Cano is the biggst choker in baseball. See http://www.mlbexpertanalysis.com/blog/?p=46
A guy gets suspended for making racial statements about Hispanics and still is a HOF voter? Not like many Latin Americans have ever played baseball, right?
It’s amazing that Matt Williams attempts to have a debate using facts, and Conlin just blatantly insults him. Clearly shows a lack of knowledge about what he is paid to cover.
I am suddenly inspired to spend three hours crafting a cogent and well-supported email to God arguing that it’s a bad idea to keep causing all these earthquakes. I am sure God will be convinced of my reasoning and I will promptly receive a response to that effect.
I am pretty sure that Mike Schmidt admitted that he would have used steroids if they were available then. Conlin should suck on that for a little while.
Oh and Jeter’s career average wRC+ is higher than Rollins’ peak during his MVP year. Rollins is league average so slightly above average and that’s it.
Thought Matt was kind calling 1st Base a push. In my Opinion, Tex is a much better defensive 1st baseman. Also, I have lived in Philly all my life (34 years this July). Bill Conlin was, is , and always will be an idiot. I don’t mean to be harsh, but I have read him enough to say that. He is part of the reason Philly sports gets a bad name, and this email exchange only furthers that point!
People have to stop arguing that Cano can currently sniff Utley’s jockstrap. I’m a HUGE Yankees fan but Utley is in the argument for best players in the game today. Cano is probably the third or fourth best player on his team. Sure, I’d love to see Cano blow up and start hitting .330/.390/.560 every year and win a few gold gloves (which is he capable of if he can become more consistent) but if you’re talking right now, it’s Cano in a landslide. Of course, Jeter over Rollins is a MASSIVE landslide and A-Rod and Polanco don’t belong in the same sentence.
And by Cano in a landslide I obviously mean the landslide is made by Utley burying him
Utley could be a roid guy too.
“Romeroid said he didn’t know what he was taking had steroids in it. Riiiight. You do realize that was the same defense that Barry Bonds and Gary Sheffield used…Regardless of what happened, he still tested positive for an illegal substance and served a 50-game suspension. When A-Rod “cheated” there were no rules in baseball against what he was doing”
====
Anyone who uses this type of logic is a fake intellectual. JC Romero contacted one doctor, one nutritionist and the players union about his use of the new over the counter suppliment called 6-0xo. The nutrionist said it was ok, the doctor said he wasn’t sure and the players union said yep cool it’s not banned have a blast. You can’t name one human being that will take an over the counter product to a science lab and have it tested.. because really, who does that?
After he tested ‘postitve,’ it was found that 6-oxo contained traces of synthetic testosterone which wasn’t listed as an ingredient. Shortly after the test, 6-oxo was magically marked with a “this producted contains X..” So, when we compare a raging steroid maniac like Bonds or Shefield to a ball player who used several resources to cover his back is outrageous. Not that Andy cares, he’s a fake intellectual.
Arod was injected, lied, came clean, fans found out he lied again about his confession just a few months later, and now he’s currently linked to another doctor who distributes PED’s. Context and thinking like a big boy is important when judging certain situations, Andy.
Utley could be a roid guy too.
So could Cano, of course.
We do know that he trained with Angel Presinal. That doesn’t mean anything by itself, but it’s more than we have on Utley.
STEROIDS…Has this guy ever seen Placido Polanco’s head? Just Google Image search “Placido Polanco” and all the pictures of him are laughable. His head is nothing shy of a watermelon and we’re supposed to believe this guy didnt take STEROIDS
It’s always a good sign when there are fans out there who, despite having an allegiance to their team, aren’t afraid (or dumb enough) to admit when the other team has a good player. I’m a Phillies fan, and there is no way Robbie Cano is better than Chase Utley. Just no way, and I’m sure Cano himself would say Utley’s the best 2B in baseball.
But, there is also no way in hell Polanco compares to A-Rod. And Howard’s defense doesn’t hold a flame to Tex’s.
There’s a difference between being an educated fan, and a delusional one.
“Wow. How do writers who treat readers like this keep their jobs? ”
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Did you cry when a large NY paper called the Post had a very immature depiction of a Phillies center fielder wearing a photoshopped skirt? Where were you then.. newspaper police?
yanks are a good team with some good fans, don’t ruin it by acting like a bunch of skirts.
I don’t really understand why there are so many Phillies’ fans rushing to defend Conlin here.
If Mike Lupica wrote some idiotic article about the Yankees, I would just admit that Lupica is a moron and move on.
And on the other side of the coin, maybe us Yankee fans should remember that Conlin is like 76 years old.
Of course he’s clueless, he’s old.
Yea don’t worry too much about Conlin. He’s an old dude who thinks hes entitled to shit. Don’t give an honest reader looking to have a discussion one word answers and be an ass. People like him give us a bad name and it’s annoying