In our interview with Brian Cashman, he told us that the loser of the 5th starter competition would not be permanently banished to the bullpen. If the decision were up to you, how would you handle Joba at this very moment? Let us take a look at some choices along with their pros & cons.
Many, such as popular sabermetrician Mike Francesa, have advocated Jobar’s place as the setup man for a while now. He has undoubtedly been most dominant in this role with a 1.50 ERA, 79 strikeouts, and just 2 homeruns surrendered through 60 innings. However, even dominant relievers generally provide less value than starters due to their fewer innings totals. If the Yankees go this route, the aura surrounding Chamberlain appears to have been a lot of hype.
The Yankees could send Joba down to AAA to start for Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. In this way, he would be able to throw an adequate amount of innings and would be ready, workload-wise, to start next season (Pettitte and/or Vazquez could be gone) or called up this year if need be. On the downside, Joba was mowing down batters in AAA as far back as 2007. There might be little to be learned on the minor league level and a send-down may even be looked at as a step back in his development.
A sort of go-between to these two options would be to keep him stretched out on the major league level. This could be done by giving him a role similar to what is expected to go to Sergio Mitre (ie: long relief and spot starts). He would be able to keep his innings up (not as many as a full-time starter in AAA) while still facing major league hitting. The Yankees may, however, prefer to define his role now rather than leave him in pitching limbo. There is also the potential injury risk of changing his expected workload, ala 2008.
As proud and opinionated NoMaasians, let us know what you think about the fate of this Cornhusker.
23 Comments
infernoscurse March 26, 2010 10:08
you have to send him to AAA, its not about mowing triple A hitters down, its about maintaining consistency in your pitching approach and your location. Sure he might not like it since hes been in the mlb club for some time now but he has to see that you cant have everything in life easy, now Ian kennedy and Phil hughes were sent back down, hughes is now the 5th starter and kennedy is starting for the dbacks, many other starters struggled early in their career and were sent back down including superhuman superprospect mr unbelievable clay buchholz
BomberBanter.com March 26, 2010 10:22
pleasantly surprised the majority didn’t want to send Joba to the setup roll – i think this is the best option for the Yankees going forward. I think the best team for 2010 probably has Mitre as the 5th starter with Hughes and Joba in the pen – they’d win a million games that way. but its not good for the yankees to move forward with.
noseeum March 26, 2010 10:32
I voted for “keep him in the pen, but with an eye towards starting…”
But I’ll add here that I just don’t know if that will happen. I guess Cashman could mandate this, but it seems to me this a very tough order to place on Girardi.
If he’s got Joba in the pen, and he’s the best reliever out there, than he’s going to want to use him as his setup man no?
I’d love it if Joba is the long reliever, and combined with that Girardi has a short leash for Burnett and Hughes. If they start approaching a disastrous outing, get Joba out there for four innings. But I just don’t see Girardi operating that way.
So if he can’t, Joba might be better off in AAA.
Matt March 26, 2010 11:11
A bigger question is what’s going to happen when Hughes has pitched 100 innnings by June?
Greg March 26, 2010 11:22
Reported limit for Hughes is about 170 innings. And typically you don’t need a 5th starter until late April. He’s fine.
AltF4 March 26, 2010 11:29
Personally I would send him down to AAA. Like no noseeum said its about constancy. If they turn him into a set up man, I don’t think they can bring him out of the pen and back into starting again. While I think Joba could be a dominant closer, he has potential to be a great starter. Andy is getting old and we are going to need another one soon enough.
Matt March 26, 2010 12:07
Greg,
Hughes has pitched a total of 192.2 innings in the majors. He threw 86 last year. It just seems strange that the Yankees would allow him to increase his workload like that.
I like Hughes and I hope he does well. I just don’t want to see “The Hughes Rules” pop up and then the Yankees need another starter.
If he can pitch the entire season, I’m all for it.
Marshall Seymour March 26, 2010 13:40
Matt, teams consider minor league totals when looking at work-load(otherwise, Javy Vazquez could be considered to have missed 2009…BAZING), so Hughes actually threw about 105 innings last year. Also, teams usually take one’s overall highest IP total into account, even if it wasn’t the previous year. For Hughes, that was 146 in 2006.
I do agree though, the 170 seems kind of high. If I had to guess, I’d say they were giving an overly optimistic max ceiling.
Collin Curtis (C.C.) March 26, 2010 13:59
Many, such as popular sabermetrician Mike Francesa…LOL
Where is the hey Giardi stop looking at small sample sizes and put Joba in the rotation option?
Matt March 26, 2010 15:14
Marshall,
That makes sense. Plus Hughes probably won’t see a lot of pitching in April w/ days off and rainouts.
Phieleblunt March 27, 2010 01:18
I don’t see being the set up man for Yewah as banishment. In fact when Mariano does leave the Yankees to reverse global warming and prevent WW3 I think Joba would make a great closer. He is lights out when he is right and has a closer mentality
pat March 27, 2010 05:06
If he goes to AAA he should be fined $1000for every 4seam and slider he throws. We know those pitches can get mlb’ers out. He should focus on the change, curve and 2seam.
ckm March 27, 2010 10:07
If the Yankees really envision Joba as a starter long term, and they clearly do, since they had him start last season, they would be idiots not to send him to AAA to start. A starter can become a reliever at any point in his career. It doesn’t work nearly as well the other way around (see: Justin Ducscherereerereererereererer.)
Mike March 27, 2010 10:58
There is a major assumption with putting him in the bullpen thats probably not valid. Everyone projects him to be the exact same person he was in the fleeting moment of 2007 (24IP, *.038ERA*, 1.82FIP 2.4xFIP, 34K 6BB) and begining of 2008 (35 IP 2.3ERA, 44k 14BB). What is commonly forgotten is that he was equally dominant, nearly identical K/BB rates, in 2008 in his brief stint as a starter (64 IP 2.7ERA, 74K 25BB). For the same reasons he wasn’t as effective in 2009 compared to 2008 as a starter, there is little reason to think his first two seasons as a reliever serve as a projection for how he will do if the front office makes him a reliever long-term.
Mike March 27, 2010 11:13
What Francesser or someone like Jon Heyman wouldn’t recognize is that pre 2008 injury, he averaged 96-97mph 4-seams as a reliever and 95mph as a starter, whereas post 2008 injury in September relief he posted 93-94mph and 92 as a starter in 2009.
massapequa parking March 27, 2010 22:59
Just wondering: Those who vote to send Joba to AAA to stretch him out as a starter, would you also like to send Mo to AAA to stretch him out? I’d sooner send Joba to AA than AAA.
lardin March 28, 2010 08:59
IF the Yankees arent gonna use Joba as a starter, They should have trade him.
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BomberBanter.com March 29, 2010 14:51
massapequa – no, I wouldn’t send Mo to AAA to stretch him out. Mo was given the opportunity to start at the beginning of his career and he was HORRIBLE. I have seen some great starting performances as a starter, and I think the Yankees should continue that development
massapequa parking March 29, 2010 23:27
Joba’s performances are contenders for Worst Performances By a Starter. Start with the Castillo game, which included one of the worst innings in the history of walk-HBP alternative universe pitching every in the category of But He Didn’t Allow Any Hits. By this standard we let all the mediocre starters go to the pen, where they may succeed, except Joba. Have you guys actually sat there and watched this guy pitch as a starter!? It’s worse than watching Pavano. If this was KC or Atlanta when they gave the HOF-3 a chance to work things out, fine. But this team can’t wait for Joba to get smart, that’s too many decades away.
awayish March 30, 2010 17:08
none of the above is sufficient. have him in a role that he would excel at, likely the bullpen, but posture it so that he is “preparing for future starterhood.” hopefully he has success in relief, and look to trade him to a team that buys into the future potential.
at this point, it’s easier to pump up his trade value, even though the best window for doing that has already passed by.
Lovey April 5, 2010 14:27
…I’d give him a hug