Joe Girardi should be tarred and feathered
Wednesday, July 14, 2010 at 8:58 am by SJK
Memo to Joe Girardi. Your stupidity cost the Yankees homefield advantage in the World Series, should they make it there.
Before the game, we invoked Rocky II to explain to Girardi that the All-Star Game has real consequences, and thus, shouldn't be managed like a charity game. Being Italian, we thought it would be the best way to get to him.
It didn't work.
Here's Tom Verducci this morning:
Here's what happened Tuesday night: down to his final three outs with the World Series schedule on the line, AL manager Joe Girardi of the Yankees left the battleship U.S.S. David Ortiz in the game to run the bases and John (.239 lifetime) Buck to hit while leaving Alex (all-time active home run leader) Rodriguez on the bench. Of course, such thinking blew up on him and the World Series will begin in an NL city.
You cannot take the game seriously when it is played this way. Ortiz, leading off, singled in the ninth with the AL trailing, 3-1. He should have been removed for a pinch-runner immediately. Girardi, however, had run through so many players just so his players could say, "Look, Mom, I got in the game!" that he had only one position player left on his bench: Rodriguez.
So what happened? After Adrian Beltre struck out, Buck dropped a bloop into rightfield. Ortiz, thinking the ball might be caught, got a late start toward second, where he was thrown out by rightfielder Marlon Byrd. Think about that: World Series homefield on the line and your penultimate out is a 9-6 putout with Ortiz running, Buck batting and Rodriguez on the bench. Ian Kinsler then flied out to end the game.
It's pretty amazing that when you're down by 2 runs in the ninth, you don't use a guy who's hit about 600 home runs, or doesn't need a tugboat to get around the bases.
Not using Arod was so messed up, American League players after the game questioned why Girardi selected Rodriguez in the first place if he wasn't going to use him.
Even Alex himself said he was ready to play:
"I sat there for about three hours, but I was loose and I was ready to go in the eighth and ninth," Rodriguez said. "We had a couple of situations where I could have gone in, but it was up to him on which situation to put me in."
As soon as the game ended, the camera flashed to Arod. He was talking to Robinson Cano and appeared very fired up, very animated. If he felt the way all of us did, he was likely utterly baffled by Girardi's decision-making.
Tags: all-star game, girardi
Yea – Girardi is a tool……but he has more teflon then I did.
How can you out of one side of your mouth complain about not using a guy with 597 career HR, then out of the other wonder why he wasn’t pinch running for Ortiz with said guy? You want to use A-Rod as a pinch runner?!? Also, the AL only had two catchers, so hitting for Buck leaves you with no catcher available, should A-Rod tie the game with a HR. And why would you pinch run for Ortiz anyway – his run means nothing. The only surprise I have is that he didn’t hit A-Rod instead of Beltre. But, of course, Beltre has been the far better player so far in 2010.
None of this means anything, anyway. The World Series hasn’t gone to a game 7 since 2002. Essentially, home field in a potential game 7 is all you are playing for in this stupid exhibition. If it is October 30 and the Yankees are playing the ________ in a game 7 on the road and they lose, then you can bitch.
John Matrix – you’re a disgrace to the Commando alias.
I should bitch at Bud Selig for the stupidity of attaching homefield advantage to a fucking exhibition game. The only reason this stupid ass stipulation came to light was because the used car salesman was embarrased in his hometown by a tie. This has nothing to do with game 7, how about games 1 & 2 at which the AL is at a disadvantage due to the fucking faggy ass NL rules. If you want to make the all star game better here’s a suggestion, no more every team must be represented. Who the fuck in Baltimore cares if Ty Wiggington played or not. Thanks Joe for acting like the Cubs player you are. DICK.
@CB14: 100% agree
The Yanks will just have to win it all at home.
I noticed Arod after the game too. He seemed pissed!!
i wonder what was going through the minds of all the teams in the AL playoff races as this mismanagement was going on.WHAT THE FUCK, WHY WERE SO MANY FUCKING BLUE JAYS ON THIS ROSTER. Hey Bud enough is enough. I have a suggestion Bud Selig’s Job is on the line every all star game. If the NL wins he stays, if the AL wins he’s out, how much sense would that make. If he had a sense of decency when the Yanks make the series, he should say in honor of George Steinbrenner, games 1 and 2 will be at Yankee Stadium. Do the right thing Bud.
I agree that Girardi screwed up. Making the ASG count for anything is stupid, but at least MLB now gives ASG managers huge rosters and lots of other rules changes to ensure they still have options in late-game situations. NoMaas’s point was that Girardi should have used these advantages to maximize the AL’s chances of winning. He didn’t. Instead, he pissed his bench away and ended up without options in a late-and-close situation.
Pinch running for Ortiz was an obvious move. Considering that virtually every player in baseball except Posada is faster than Ortiz, it’s unforgivable that Girardi didn’t have someone available to pinch run.
Wah wah wah we dont get home field advantage. Every manager in every all star game manages the same way, get over it. All this means is that when we sweep the world series we’ll be winning it at home.
Colin, the first two games would be in NL parks, that means that whomever is playing is at a strategic disadvantage due to an exhibition game. Is there not something wrong with that? An AL team with 95-100 wins could has to go to an NL team that may win 88-91. Texas, Yanks, Red Sox and Rays are on pace for 94-100 wins and they should have to play a game 7 on the road because of the All star game? Girardi fucked up, but why should managers be put in this position in the first place?
The team with home field is 4-3 since this stupid ASG rule was implemented. Last year the Yankees took 2 on the road. Which NL team do you think will benefit from home field vs. the Yankees should they make it to the World Series? The Braves? Reds? Padres? Dodgers? The Yankees are 5-4 in NL parks this year. If anything it gives them an advantage with their superior starting pitching (which rotation in the NL is better than the Yankees?) facing shorter lineups.
In quick conclusion, it doesn’t really matter. The likelihood of a Game 7 happening this year, with the way things have been going for the Yankees and other teams, doesn’t seem high.
A healthy A-Rod cares not where he hits in the post-season (see: Philadelphia, 2009). But, I guess nomaas has to find *something* to bitch about with the Yankees having the best record in baseball.
Where as I agree that it didn’t make any sense for A-Rod to not pinch hit somewhere in the game or at least pinch-run for better speed that Ortiz, part of the game was lost due to the AL’s fundamentals on the base path. You can’t blame Giradi for Mauer’s getting thrown out at 3rd. You can’t blame Giradi for Andrus over-sliding 2nd base and thinking the ball went into the outfield (then the next batter getting a hit which would have scored Andrus most likely). Heck, you can’t really blame Giradi for Ortiz’s lack of abiliy to read a fly ball to the outfield and whether it’s going to drop or not. You also can’t blame Giradi in the 1st inning that Hamilton grounded into a DP with 1st and 3rd and 1 out. The pitching dominated the game for the most part and the AL’s base running is a big reason why they lost.
dochielomn, how can you not fault Girardi for leaving Ortiz on the bases? That’s plain stupid.
It was stupid not to pinch it with A Rod.
Did Joe forget all the big game tying HRs last year.
He thrives on those situations.
Meanwhile asides from winning last year, the Yanks got knocked out in the first round and didn’t make it in the fourth so I’m not going to lose sleep as home field shouldn’t be decided anyway from this game.
What the fuck does it matter? The Yanks are going to sweep the World Series anyway.
The AL send three batters to the plate in the 9th that represented the tying run: Beltre, Buck, and Kinsler.
Those three have combined to hit 433 career home runs. Yes, COMBINED they have 164 less home runs than Alex Rodriguez.
But its cool because Ty Wiggington got a chance to play.
You suck Girardi
Who the FUCK is Matt Thornton and why was he the one selected to come into the game with runners on 1st and 3rd and one out? You’re telling me the AL didn’t have a single pitcher on the bench that could have taken the bat out of the hands of McCan’t? And that there was no one who could have relieved him after walking friggin’ Marlon Byrd? Oh, wait! Valverde! That’s right, the dude who struck out the side in the ninth – the lowest leverage situation in the game! RAGE
I blame Ortiz not being able to read a fly ball to the outfield more than Giradi leaving him in. Yes, i faster runner maybe beats the throw to 2nd, but as someone else pointed out, his run didn’t mean anything. This wasn’t the tieing run nor was he on 2nd and trying to score on a base hit. The base running blunders is what i blame more.
fire Girardi. don’t let him manage another All Star game…ever.
Of all the discussion going back and forth, the only move that I see that could be questioned was not pinch hitting A-Rod for Kinsler. You wouldn’t hit him for Beltre (who’s having a better season), you can’t hit him for Buck (you have no other catching options), and you can’t pinch run for Ortiz (why pinch run with a guy with 597 HR? With a bum hip? For a guy who isn’t even the tying run?). Bbut if he hits for Kinsler and jacks one out, the worst thing you have to do is move Andrus to 2B and put A-Rod at SS. It isn’t ideal, but certainly tolerable.
Walt – and replace him with who exactly? Do you mean that Girardi should have had more foresight and included a speedy, versatile, no-stick type player on his bench in case he needed him as a pinch runner late? Kinda like Omar Infante? You know, the guy that everyone was killing Manuel for including on his roster. Or are you suggesting that Girardi take 597 career HR and one bum hip and stick him on first base in the ninth inning of a 2 run game as a pinch runner? I hope it isn’t that, because THAT is just plain stupid.
Col. John Matrix-
He should never have put Wigginton in the game when he did and he should not have used Swisher as a pinch hitter when he did (which he would not have had to do if Wigginton had not been in the game). For one, while neither of those guys are great base runners they are far better than Fat Papi. But more importantly, Wigginton would have given the team more options in the ninth – the guy has played all four infield positions in the past so if needed he could have been used as a defensive substitute if A-Rod hit for Kinsler. It still would not have been an ideal defensive situation, but it would have given Girardi options.
Girardi played to get every position player in the game – except for the one guy from his team that just happens to be the active HR leader
@ Sky is Falling: Thank you for finally bringing that up. Considering all the other situations discussed here (PR for Ortiz, PH w ARod, etc.), bringing in someone like Matt Thornton in a high-lev situation when you have Valverde, Soriano & Soria as options as well was the worst decision of the night. (I understand Thornton has like 12 K/9, but if you’re playing to win, you’d rather trust a guy who may be more used to high-pressure situations than a set-up guy from the ChiSox. That is just bonkers.)
That said, I’m also not too happy with Phranchise getting into that jam to begin with.
This is really similar to when tony didn’t put pujols in the game a couple of years ago
nomaas is getting stupider and stupider by the day. very sad to see
j – the interesting thing is I understand that Wigginton could have been re-inserted in the game as an injury replacement after he was pinch hit for (he was the only player that could be put back into the game should someone get hurt). Well, how’s this – pinch hit for Kinsler with A-Rod in the ninth, then move A-Rod to third, pull Beltre (who has a hamstring injury), then re-insert Wigginton at 2B. That seems to make the most sense of all, no?
The use of Wigginton was curious for sure – he basically played an inning in the field and did not bat. Why not use Beltre in the top of the 7th instead, and then you would have both Wigginton and A-Rod on the bench for the ninth, and Wigginton could have run for Ortiz if need be. It seemed to me that Girardi was trying to avoid using A-Rod at all in the field, which concerns me going forward (unless it was Girardi babying A-Rod for the second half).
Since we are nitpicking, here’s one: Hughes has not been throwing the ball great since mid-May. Why not just line up the closers to go 7-8-9, instead of using Hughes to start the 7th. I know he’s from California, and probably had a lot of people there, but I would have rather seen Soria-Soriano-Feliz work the last three innings. I mean, is anyone really surprised, based on how he’s pitched for the past 6 weeks, that Hughes was ineffective last night?
Yeah, why would you bring in Matt Thornton to face two lefties? What a STUPID fucking idea. It’s not like he holds lefties to a .173 BAA or anything, or that he has a 14 K/9 when facing them. Clearly having him face lefties was stupid, stupid, stupid. I guess it would have been McCann’s scary .356 SLG against lefties that would scare you away.
Yeah, Col., Hughes was an abomination last night. A bloop and a ground ball up the middle. Jesus Christ, why haven’t they sent him down to the minors yet?
To the people who don’t think this is a big deal, with 4 games in NL parks, our pitchers have to bat 1 more game, than they would if it were the other way around. Does Chin-Ming Wang mean anything to you? I agree also that the AS game shouldn’t determine home field advantage. That is Selig covering up his sorry politically correct ass. You watch him move the AS game next year too. The implications of him doing that could be far worse that a few players sitting it out. You may have 10% of the country boycott baseball period! Just sayin’!
Thornton in a high-lev situation when you have Valverde, Soriano & Soria as options as well was the worst decision of the night. (I understand Thornton has like 12 K/9, but if you’re playing to win, you’d rather trust a guy who may be more used to high-pressure situations than a set-up guy from the ChiSox. That is just bonkers.)
Wait, the White Sox are in first place. Thorton is an excellent reliever.
Are you saying the closer FOR THE ROYALS knows how to win in “high pressure” situations but a top set up guy for a first place team doesn’t??
Come on, going to Thorton was fine. I bet you had no idea the White Sox were in first place. It’s ok, most people probably didn’t notice either.
The White Sox may be in first, because of their record against the NL, that doesn’t mean it was the right move. Selig will not move the All Star game next year and that may turn into a disaster with all the protests and pressure from groups urging hispanic & African American baseball players to say something. This hoem field advantage thing is fucking absurd. As I mentioned earlier an AL team could win 95-105 games & play a game 7 on the road against an inferior league due to an exhibition game. Bud FUCK YOU I am sorry you got raped in Milwaukee in 2002 but maybe if your stupid ass NL didn’t have those pitcher hitting rules that could have been avoided. But then again looking at the two managers maybe not.
“To the people who don’t think this is a big deal, with 4 games in NL parks, our pitchers have to bat 1 more game, than they would if it were the other way around. Does Chin-Ming Wang mean anything to you? ”
So losing home field is a big deal because in the one extra game the pitcher might suffer a freak injury that damages his wind-up for the next few years?
Look, this isn’t football. HFA is not too influential a factor. It can make the difference between two evenly-matched teams but it won’t keep a great team from beating a bad team. It’s so unimportant that for 100 years it arbitrarily alternated between leagues every year and nobody ever complained.
For what its worth, if we are losing going into the ninth of game 7 of the World Series, we’re already fucked and not winning. Matter of fact, if we do not win it in six, I am not wasting my time watching game 7, b/c again, we’re fucked.
Please dont say Soria and Thorton in the same breath. thorton is a good Lefty RP Soria is a dominant RP with a 94 mph fastball and 65 mph change. Just cause he’s on KC dosnt eliminate hm from being good.
I just watched that sequence again. Since Ortiz’s run didn’t mean anything (tying run was at the plate) the first baseman was playing behind him, giving him second. He should have had a 45-foot lead so he could touch second with his fat belly. I know I know, he’s slower than Posada with Joe West on his back, but they were giving him second, why was he still standing on first? Buck was 2 balls, no strikes, so he had at least 2 opportunities to move up 90 feet. Red Sux.
@Col. John Matrix:
“How can you out of one side of your mouth complain about not using a guy with 597 career HR, then out of the other wonder why he wasn’t pinch running for Ortiz with said guy?”
You know why, Col?
.
Because we’re the new media, Col.
We don’t have to make sense…Girardi: tar & feather him.
Torre: complete hack. I could’ve won 6 WS in my sleep just running FanGraphs regressions…
We’re the new media, Col
@Sky is Falling: High-leverage? I like the way you talk
Col. John Matrix- The only explanation for using Wigginton like that is the childish “YEAAAA EVERYONE GOT TO PLAY!!!!!” mentality. Of course, this just makes the A-Rod situation even more puzzling. Unless maybe he was hoping to give A-Rod a shot with two on base so a HR wins it? But this isn’t a mind-90′s video game where you get away with crap like that. That makes me think maybe he was hurt, which scares me, but if that was the case why didn’t he opt out of the game and let someone replace him so that Girardi would have a full bench?
The problem I have with the All-Star game right now is this: You have to choose between the game determining home field advantage and the game being played the way it is (fans pick starters, everyone plays, every team gets a rep, etc.) If the game has consequences, the All-Stars should be determined by some sort of stat such as WAR – but have some stat guy develop one specifically for the All-Star game. The PGA has Ryder Cup points, MLB should have “All-Star points”.
On July 1st or so, take the top “x” number of players at each position and put them on the team, with the best at each position being starters. If you really want the fans to have any say, pool all the non-All-Stars together and rank them by All-Star points. Put the top 5 or so per league on a fan ballot for the final player, and give each manager one “Manager’s Pick” to be used as he chooses. If the AL is 95% Yankees, and no Orioles make the team for 10 straight years, so be it. Guys like Votto wouldn’t be need the final fan vote to get in, and we would not need to argue over who “deserves” to start. Plus, this would normalize All-Star appearances for future HOF ballots. If Player A was an All-Star 12 times in a row, we would know that he truly dominated his peers for those 12 years.
Pee pee in Bud’s mouth.
“If the game has consequences, the All-Stars should be determined by some sort of stat such as WAR – but have some stat guy develop one specifically for the All-Star game.”
It wouldn’t matter. Each team consists of a general pool of the best players from each league. In the small sample size of a single game, each team will always have roughly a %50 chance of winning, with the slight advantage going to the superior league. How is that not just as acceptable for determining HFA as doing it arbitrarily by even/odd years?
“It wouldn’t matter. Each team consists of a general pool of the best players from each league. In the small sample size of a single game, each team will always have roughly a %50 chance of winning, with the slight advantage going to the superior league. How is that not just as acceptable for determining HFA as doing it arbitrarily by even/odd years?”
Charlie, you’re right to a point. It’s not a terrible way of determining HFA given the pretty even chances that either league will win, but that doesn’t mean the game is managed like it matters. As others have said, every team should not need to be represented because no one gives a shit that Evan Meek or Ty Wiggington are the best players from their respective, terrible teams.
I’d also eliminate, or at least significantly reduce, the impact of fan voting because the average fan is, quite frankly, retarded. It’s alarming that Tex was ever even in the hunt to start at first base with Miggy and Morneau playing as well as they have. Since it is the All-Star game and it’s “for the fans,” some level of fan participation will probably need to exist. I’d suggest weighing fan opinion as a fourth of the vote, or some significant but not outcome-determining factor, and leaving the rest of the roster to the players and managers.
Of course, that assumes the managers know what the fuck they’re doing (Wiggington in the game, ever? Omar Infante? Howard DHing over Votto? Ubaldo over Josh Johnson? All of the other mistakes you guys have mentioned?) Maybe it would be best to determine All-Stars by WAR or some other statistical means, but I don’t see that happening. Regardless, the current system is for shit and needs to be seriously revised.
“To the people who don’t think this is a big deal, with 4 games in NL parks, our pitchers have to bat 1 more game, than they would if it were the other way around. Does Chin-Ming Wang mean anything to you? ”
So losing home field is a big deal because in the one extra game the pitcher might suffer a freak injury that damages his wind-up for the next few years?
Look, this isn’t football. HFA is not too influential a factor. It can make the difference between two evenly-matched teams but it won’t keep a great team from beating a bad team. It’s so unimportant that for 100 years it arbitrarily alternated between leagues every year and nobody ever complained.
———————————————————-
It wasn’t meant to say someone would suffer an injury, rather the whole debacle of having to watch Hughes or Pettitte bat. That in the least should concern you. NL pitchers are more inclined to hit and run the bases than the AL, case in point Chin-Ming Wang
“It wasn’t meant to say someone would suffer an injury, rather the whole debacle of having to watch Hughes or Pettitte bat. ”
It’s not a game changer. Yankee pitchers have been coming to the plate in World Series games since 1923. Home field is more advantageous to the Yankees for other reasons.
“Charlie, you’re right to a point. It’s not a terrible way of determining HFA given the pretty even chances that either league will win, but that doesn’t mean the game is managed like it matters. As others have said, every team should not need to be represented because no one gives a shit that Evan Meek or Ty Wiggington are the best players from their respective, terrible teams.”
I agree that the game last night was mismanaged, and I see no reason why every player should be played in a game that counts as the All-Star Game does. It was managed that way when the game was an exhibition, and I hoped one of the positives in the change that came following the year it was a tie is that managers would play it more seriously, without rotating players.
They did briefly, if I recall, but Girardi certainly didn’t. I believe that leaving starters in longer, and not trying to play everybody, would be a better strategy.
Penis
People keep saying having WS home field decided by the ASG is “arbitrary” like that is some great indictment of the idea. It isn’t.
All ways of deciding who gets home field advantage in the WS are arbitrary. Alternating between leagues odd and even years – arbitrary. Coin flip – arbitrary. Deciding by overall record also arbitrary, since why should cummulative outcomes based on non-identical schedules be the deciding factor?
Baseball is nothing but arbitrary rules, why not 5 strikes instead of 3? Why not have a homerun count for 5 runs instead just one? Or have 12 defensive players on the field? Someone just made up some arbitrary rules and called it a Baseball. Having one more arbitrary rule can hardly be a real complaint.
Having the ASG mean something may or may not be a great idea, but it isn’t a bad idea just because it’s arbitrary. Critics need to come up with smarter reasons.
@Miguel,
Well said, hombre. +1111!
Fine here is a smarter reason, why should an exhibition game be used to determine league superiority. Why not use the interleague tote board to see who gets HFA. Isn’t that a true barometer of which league is better as opposed to a game where half the particpants either back out or don’t play? Bud Selig forced this idea on the public & his sport because he was embarrased in his hometown in a stadium he built.
His pitiful shrug at the end of the game was priceless. Shouldn’t the best record determine which league gets HFA also. Again if the AL team, in a tougher league, gets 95-105 wins how could they be deemed inferior to an NL team that has 91 wins in what is acknowledged as the weaker league?