It’s not often we give props to a member of the MSM, but Verducci today knocked it out of the park with his article about closers. While the article had more to do about injuries and the specialization of bullpens, this was our favorite part of the piece:
Managers are motivated by the save statistic, throwing three-out save chances to their closer like bones to a dog. The game universally has embraced this idea that a closer can’t come in to a tie game on the road — better to lose the game with a lesser pitcher than run your closer out there without a save in hand.
In general, closers are inefficient investments. It’s not just that they break down; Wilson, Soria, Madson, Bailey and Farnsworth will earn $30.2 million combined this year, whether they pitch or not. It’s that paying a guy $12.5 million to throw 60 innings — but, good Lord, not when the game is tied on the road and only when about half the plate appearances against him are truly high leverage — is a waste of a great arm.
Thank you, Tom. The ‘slave to the save’ is probably the most ridiculous thing in baseball, and it’s refereshing to see a member of the MSM call this out. Saving the closer for save situations only is completely idiotic.
31 Comments
Devil's Advocate April 17, 2012 16:43
So, when you get the lead in the 14th inning on the road, who do you protect it with? Your ace starter who pitches tomorrow?
Eduardo Núñez April 17, 2012 16:45
Clay Rapada motherfocker
potatoes April 17, 2012 16:59
better him than Booney
Eduardo Núñez April 17, 2012 21:14
FOCK YOU MOTHERFOCKER boone logan MAKE NOMAAS LOOK LIKE FOOL LIKE ME I MAKE NOMAAS LOOK HORNY
http://i41.tinypic.com/2s1rlvd.gif
Eduardo Núñez April 17, 2012 16:56
if cley rapada canot get 3 men out den he motherfocker socker that don belon in majors, u planz ahead if toff lineup op then u tink outside box on mix match so rapada no looki like jorny bagina wantin poundin
Logic April 17, 2012 17:31
What if you never make it there because your fourth best reliever gave the game away in the 9th by surrendering one run?
Michael Kay April 17, 2012 19:15
If you believe in the fallacy of the predetermined outcome, then he gives it away in the 14th as well by surrendering that same one run, and then you waste an inning with your closer.
Dude April 17, 2012 22:37
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Michael Kay April 17, 2012 22:42
I’ve never had soup before.
I have serious problems.
Ki m Last April 19, 2012 15:28
Lumps
Phallic outcum April 18, 2012 10:36
But your team gets an extra 5 opportunities to score a run and win the game before he blows it anyways…
Stupid moron April 17, 2012 18:17
How the fuck often does that happen Mr. Devil? Now shut the fuck up.
lmao April 18, 2012 17:12
How often does a game get to the 14th inning??
Joeybagonuts April 19, 2012 09:39
How did you get to the 14th? Magic?
Goose Gossage April 17, 2012 16:53
“Back in 72, I could throw a baseball over them mountains!”
Uncle Rico April 19, 2012 09:40
If coach woulda put me in in the 4th quarter, no doubt we woulda won state… no doubt in my mind.
dpcjr April 17, 2012 16:58
I think you guys are a little drastic with the “slave to save” mantra. Is there evidence that ALL managers do this, or even a majority? I think to criticize Girardi over his handling of the bullpen over the last four plus seasons is insane. We consistently have on of the best bullpens in baseball, even with many of the components changing from year to year, except of course for the GOAT.
I think most managers save closers for when they can end and win the game. The majority of those times are save situations. I think saves are a product of bringing in your best relief pitcher when you can end the game. Not the other way around. The idea of using your best reliever (almost always the closer) in the highest leverage situation is another argument. Like Torre did a few years ago with the Dodgers and Broxton, bringing him in to face a better part of the order in the 8th and a lesser reliever against a weak part of the lineup in the ninth.
In other words, I don’t think they are a “slave to save”, I think they just prefer to use their best reliever when they have a chance to end and win the game, rather than in a tie game on the road.
Baseball History April 18, 2012 04:11
Exclusive use of closers to get saves is not folklore. See Frank Rodriguez use last year with Angels as a warmer.
Joeybagonuts April 19, 2012 09:42
Let’s see here… three sentences from your post:
“Is there evidence that ALL managers do this, or even a majority?”
&
“I think most managers save closers for when they can end and win the game. The majority of those times are save situations.”
You cancelled yourself out there, dumbass.
Jay Destro April 20, 2012 10:50
Suck a fat one.
Ritardi Losses:2 April 17, 2012 17:12
It gets even better when I am a slave to my dopey bullpen assignments. Oh crap I don;t have a 6th inning guy when I am down by one. Oh well, I will leave in my lefty with a horrendous split and give up on this game. We would probably lose anyway.
vinny-b April 17, 2012 18:08
I completely agree, NOMAAS.
now it’s to the point, where it’s not good enough to have a closer for the 9th inning. Now, you also have to have a relief pitcher designated for the 8th inning. And one designated for the 7th inning, too.
Moshe Mandel April 17, 2012 20:04
I get off on Woody Allen movies.
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Duh April 18, 2012 09:54
You typically don’t see something this dumb until well into the never-ending season. Can Verducci (or anyone) show me the stats where a manager doesn’t use his closer in a tie game, thus saving him, but WINS the game when he IS able to bring in that closer when they get the lead? Honestly, this is dumb. I agree that you shouldn’t “save” your closer for an eventuality that may never happen, rather you should use your best pitcher in THAT situation. But couldn’t we argue that Mo isn’t the best pitcher to use in a situation like that? Closers are conditioned to protect the lead and save the game … bringing them into a non-save situation is often detrimental. But, forget all of that … if the purpose of bringing in your closer in a non-save situation is to protect a tie, doesn’t that mean you are saving a lesser pitcher to eventually save the game, assuming you can get a lead? I’ll say it again, this is a dumb, meaningless stat.
What are you talking abour April 18, 2012 10:41
Sorry, Mo doesn’t know how to get people out unless the scoreboard lights are glowing in a certain way? There is nothing to this idea that “closers don’t know how to pitch in non-save situations”. Nothing.
Also, you don’t know there is going to be a save situation, even if the Yankees win the game. Yanks might put up 4 runs in the top of the 10th. Now, are we also not going to use the closer then beacuse it is not a save situation? Again, the lights look funny, so Mo is ineffective? He can’t pitch unless Yankees Runs – Opponents Runs = >4?
In the words of the immortal gob, COME ON.
Duh April 19, 2012 09:02
My apologies for not living in my mom’s basement so that I have plenty of time to dig up meaningless stats, but since you brought it up … I’m quite certain that if you examine Mo’s ERA in non-save situations, you will find it to be VERY BAD. Look it up, I DARE you. It is at least double, if not triple, his overall ERA. Now, granted, it would be a small sample size, but there is absolutely a definitive difference in his performance (or MOST closers) when he is used in non-save situations.
Devil's Advocate revisited April 19, 2012 01:02
“if the purpose of bringing in your closer in a non-save situation is to protect a tie, doesn’t that mean you are saving a lesser pitcher to eventually save the game, assuming you can get a lead?”
exactly what i’m trying to say. at least somebody gets it.
The $100,000 Pyramid April 18, 2012 16:03
“What a refreshing article.”
things not heard from reading NM
Joe Páwlikowski April 19, 2012 15:30
Where did you steal that content from?
—Things heard on RAB
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